Category: News and Views
I can hardly believe that the story I am about to share with you is reality: the London borough of Hackney is home to the Hackney empire, which is one of the best London theatres outside the west end where all the famous ones are. This morning, a council spokesman from Hackney was on the radio, proudly announcing the fact that on certain days of the week, black people would be allowed a massive discount on theatre tickets. the average ticket is £10 at the moment, but black people, according to this particular councillor, would be able to purchase a ticket for £2. How ridiculous is this! The council say that black people are too poor to afford to go to the theatre in general, or alternatively even for the rich black people the theatre is considered a turn-off for them because of the amount of white folk they see there. What a disgraceful thing to say in my opinion! I can say this for certain: if I wwere a black person, my delight at being able to get into the theatre for less would pale into insignificance compared with my outrage at being insulted in this manner by Hackney Borough Council who are in effect saying that black people either don't possess the capabilities to advance beyond the poverty line or that all this Shakespeare lark is generally held to be too complex for the culture of the black community! And quite apart from that, the policy is racist! The council acknowledge this but say that it is to aid a minority community, which in my view doesn't make it right, but even if it did, they fail to note that in their borough, the minority community is the white community! This is yet another example of the do-gooders with their politically correct claptrap driving a coach and horses through all standards of equality and decency, patronizing the ethnic minorities in a manner I find it difficult to comprehend, and promoting a racist policy yet at the same time making us feel like prejudiced nazis for criticising it. I am ashamed, I say, to be living in the next constituency along from Hackney, which more often than not follows Hackney's lead; I hope that this time, it shan't.
Its beyond comprehension pal, and this move leaves the door open for other minorities to take full advantage of such lilly livered ignorance,how did the black community react to this gesture
The black community, or at least those who phoned in to this particular programme, were in general outraged. there was only one person out of a dozen or so whom I heard who were in support of it. I know a good number of black people who both enjoy, and who are very knowledgeable about, the theatre, and this patronizing nonsense is the last thing they would wish to see. even if there is a problem in that not many black people attend theatres, which I concede one might suggest there might be, why is it treated any fdfferently from the idea of non-attendance of white people at the Notting Hill Carnival?
Snore
well LL
I see nothing wrong with providing inexpensive tickets to those who can't afford the pleasure of enjoying a theater. Where it goes wrong, and where I agree with you, is assuming those people are black, even if statistically perhaps 80 or even 95% of these people were black (which I am not saying it is) it still does not warrant placing a label like this on the community.
Then again, why is it different when blind people get special discounts, what's really the difference between being blind and black, in terms of going to the theater e.g., yet I, personally, take all the discounts etc I can get, I don't ask for them but I'd be stupid to turn them down.
Cheers
-B
But Wildebrew, this post seems to touch on the point and then divert away from it again if you don't mind me saying so. The argument in respect of blind theatre-goers is that they get less asthetic pleasure out of the theatre because they have no vision, or limited vision, and are therefore less able to appreciate the art of the performance. This is certainly more true in respect of some performances than others, and may explain why in this country, the discount really will depend on what sort of performance it is, and most of the time there is no discount at all. now, for me this proposal does two things and I'm sure, Wildebrew, this is what you were getting at: first, it says that if you are black, you shall have a theatre ticket for £2, but if you are white you shall pay the full fee. So, if you're a black lawyer you go in for £2, but I'm sorry Mrs white student nurse you have to pay the full £15 I'm afraid, despite your massively inferior earnings. Yes I know it's unfair, but those are the rules, if you're white you pay, if you're black you don't. second, the cultural argument i.e. the problem with black people is that they're too culturally inept to appreciate the wonders of the theatre, which is why they don't go, and that is what the council said in effect earlier today. That cannot be right. so, Wildebrew, in response to your post it must be said first that comparing the blind versus sighted issue is not entirely helpful when assessing the black versus white issue in terms of pricing, even if such discounts do exist for blind people which is not often the case over here. second, I would agree that discounts for students, pensioners, war veterans, children, families etc. would be fine, but that is not the issue. what we have here is a discount that turns on the person's race and that, I say, is reprehensible.
I should also add in response to another point Wildebrew made that whether black people take these discounts or not has no bearing on the matter in my opinion. If an impecunious black person is faced with a choice between paying £2 and £15 he'll obviously take the former, but that has no bearing on his right to feel disgusted by the system. If I may draw a comparison, some people pay far less tax than others because they earn less. They pay that lower rate of tax and don't volunteer any more money, even if they have some put by. Yet that doesn't mean that their votes carry less weight than those who pay millions of pounds of capital gains and inheritance tax, does it?
doesn't this though come down to a racism in reverse senario though? can you imagine what outcry there would be if they suddenly said ... white people don't have to pay as much as the black people because they're financially not as well off? It simply wouldn't be allowed! so why is it, that we can say this about black people, that we can have organizations in this country purely for black people, and that is deemed to be acceptable, but if we set up an organization purely for white people, the black population would be up in arms about it. Now I am not a racist, but it does annoy me that we seem to have such different approaches here.
I think the whites stay away from the carnival due to feelings of intimidation and a fear of being attacked, no matter how unfounded or relevant they may be...but the question of the cheap tickets I vire it as nothing more than a disgusting patronising pat on the head to the black comunity, cant you just see the happy shiny do-gooder
.................................
"hey I know we'll help out the poor put upon black people, by introducing them to culture, we'll hand out these super cheap tickets and they can enjoy some of our really high brow entertainment yeah... because..they ..are.. all..so deprived and..without hope..bless em".
LawLord
Yes, I do agree that last comment of mine was slightly wearing off topic but it just came to mind as I was typing. There really is very little reason why blind people should get discounted services (in some cases) and it can be considered patronizing. But, regarding the point under discussion, well anything that has to do with race or religion is such a taboo these days. E.g. if teenagers (ages 12 to 15 e.g.) got these discount tickets and the reason for that waw given as their lack of appreciation for theater arts, no one would find a problem with it. Only because it is a certain race do people find this is patronizing and demeaning. Quite frankly there is not a big difference between the two, the former could've been wrapped up in a nicer language though since those are "maturing minds" or something to that nature, but ultimately, it's weird how our notion of race and racism has almost turned around completely and now we find anything that singles out a race even possibly, with some reasonable arguments, offensive and patronizing and completely and utterly inappropriate. I share your notion but thinking bout this logically as I stated before I think I'm not entirely logical and I think it's just society and the way we were brought up with racial diffferences being a huge taboo that is creating these notions more so than anything else.
Cheers
-B
But it is no good setting this argument against the backdrop of a society that regards race in the same way as it does age classifications, because that is simply not the society we live in. You appear at one point to equate age classifications with racial differences and to say that there is no reason for discounts in either case. However, I disagree. There is every reason to encourage young people, who often have a lot less money than the rest of us, to go to the theatre. It might inspire them to the stage in the future, or they might just enjoy a traditional form of entertainment that is certainly worth enjoying. It is quite another matter, though, to award discounts to people based solely on their colour or race. I repeat, Wildebrew, why is it that the black lawyer pays £2 whereas the white nurse pays £15? For your argument to work you have to find a reason, just like there is a reason for almost every other discount e.g. students, pensioners, children, families. The purported justifications that claim that black people are in general impecunious or that they generally need an incentive to go to the theatre because it isn't their scene are misplaced and wrong, and won't do at all I'm afraid. I should add, though, that I fully recognise that Wildebrew you weren't adopting those as your reasons.
I shall certainly respond to that in good time.
If the reason of discounts is merely to provide discounts to those who are not likely to have money and if from salary statistics or tax returns it is found that black people e.g. occupy 98% of the lowest tax bracket or, alternatively to say that 90% of black people live around the national poverty line then the reasons given for giving them discounts might be the same as to give discounts to other groups e.g. pensioners. There is the odd pensioner who has saved up money all his/her life and is well off, most are living off of a rather inadequate income. Thus it could be perceived that the financial situation gave rise to the discounts and statistically speaking did not discriminate between races rather than age groups but the discount was given solely based on financial analysis of the demographic's income. That's my point basically, and in the case of a race or ethnicity this is deemed demeaning (rightly so actually) whereas in the case of, say age or disability group, it is considered, well, admirable or at least not in such a negative way.
Cheers
-B
I agree with the substance of that last post. I would have no problem with Hackney Borough council if they were to offer discounts to certain people such as the unemployed, the nurses and the casual workers who make up the lower percentile of the wealth structure. They could do that, and it would not discriminate against e3either black or white or any other ethnicity. It's important, though, that this is the reason rather than one's skin-colour, for as I say, there may be black dustmen, casual labourers, cleaners and the like, but there are also white people in the same job, and there are also black lawyers, civil servants and journalists who can well afford to pay the full price like their white colleagues.
Yes LL, I think we have reached a consensus on the issue. I agree that the only vihable reason they could give for such incentives would be the person's financial inability to enjoy the show or play or what have you, but it can't be tied to race specifically, it carries the inheent impliction that for some reason that race is not as cultured or developed as the rest of society and that's a dangerous road to take.
Amen to that. We have sertainly reached a consensus, and not an F word in sight eh?